Фанатам Брисков посвящается.
Цитаты взяты из рассылки пользователей CREO. Курсив мой.
We're planning on an equipment upgrade (both software and hardware) in the not to distant future. We are presently using
Brisque v4. My question is have any of you moved from the Brisque workflow to Prinergy? And if so,
1) Is it all an improvement over the Brisque or are there drawbacks to the switch?
2) Does Prinergy handle Adobe transparency issues better than the Brisque?
3) Are the PC boxes used in Prinergy as dependable as the Brisque AIX boxes?
4) Features missing from one workflow vs. the other.
5) Is there much of a learning curve involved in the switch?
6) Any other comments, pros, cons, or other issues on the switch.
ALL of my operators were unhappy, and some were actually livid when I
told them we were switching from Brisque to Prinergy. My most outspoken
critic knew Brisque inside out, and had used it for many years. Today
he'd tell you he can't believe he fought the switch, and he'd NEVER want
to go back.
Prinergy servers will need to be rebooted at least once per week to keep
them running smoothly. Overall, the PCs have been less troublesome than
the Brisque boxes. We also moved our "Active Jobs"(source files) from a
Ripro server to a Windows server. We use ExtremeZ-IP on the Windows
server. We have not rebuilt a Mac index in 2 years--that was something
we did at least once a day with the Ripro server.
There is a learning curve, but it is not a difficult one.
One "Pro" is getting away from CT/LW. My operators probably don't even
realize that Prinergy does dual rasterization. They don't need to know
that. My former die-hard Brisque operator loves that he doesn't have to
deal with CT/LW any more.
I've talked to several Prinergy shops that had left Brisque. I hear the
same story every time...operators didn't want to switch, but later are
glad they did.
Ditto - I could not agree more. I was never charmed by the Brisque in the
time I had to deal with one and never understood the blind allegiance it
commands in so many other people. It kind of reminds me of Apple computing
in that sense. If only a Mac were on the Brisque front end! Throw on some
dark glasses and start serving the Kool-aid!
One Brisque "pro" - There's plenty to choose from on eBay.
Speed is one of the most important benefits you will see in Prinergy
over Brisque.
Your operators will be amazed by how Prinergy outperforms Brisque in
speed of ripping trapping etc...
I was also a die hard Brisque user and as Jim said, I'd never want to
go back.
Tom is right in that the Unix box (Brisque) is more dependable than
anything that has Microsoft attached to the beginning of it. The
Microsoft Server box that Prinergy runs on is a good box, but not near
as reliable. We had a Brisque from 98 to 02 and once the install was all
completed, it was down one time and that was due to a glitch with an
upgrade. It turned out I missed a step... it was a pain to fix, but 3
hours later all was good with the world again. I will mention that the
install was ugly and took about twice as long as they said it would, but
then after that the Brisque worked great.
I've had Prinergy since then and it's been down easily 15 times and the
last time was ugly. Dead Prinergy server that we still don't know why it
died. It would run for awhile and then just go blue screen of death.
After two days of fighting it, Creo did the right thing and sent me a
new temp server so we could get back up. We used it for two weeks while
a brand new server shipped. We copied the data from server a to server b
and off we went. It's been butter smooth since. I think the 4 presses
set idle over the 5 day mess for just over 30 hours according to
Accounting. 30 hours times 4 presses times $400/hr... and that was just
accounting for the presses not the bindery equipment, etc... you do the
math.
With that all being said, I would NEVER, EVER, EVER go back to a
Brisque. Prinergy simply works better... this is my opinion and yeah,
I've used the new version of Brisque, blah, blah, blah... I fought off
the Prinergy wave back in 01 and finally gave it a serious look in 02
and decided it was time to stop with all the workarounds, etc and we
jumped to Prinergy. I've never regretted it, not even once.
The best of all worlds would be Prinergy running on a Unix box... that
would be heaven. Microsoft sucks.
I can give some quick answers. We switched at end of last year from
Brisque 5 to Prinergy 2.3.1.4.
1. I think it is an overall much system, being pdf based than the
Brisque. The workflow is more complicated though and does take some
involvement getting everything to work with existing equipment.
2. There are much fewer transparency issues with Prinergy and CT
edges are always sharp.
3. The Boxes used are Dell servers. We have had one drive go out on
the RAID but we got a new one and there was no down time. Not sure on
overall reliability though it is too new, but the print console boxes
we use have not had many problems.
4. The only major feature missing from the Brisque is manual layouts.
We had used this for ganging patch proofs. Post RIP edits on spot
color items (duotones, dsc2, and multi-ink) are very difficult or
impossible with Acrobat and Pitstop. We are looking into other options.
5. It took our six operators about two weeks to feel somewhat
comfortable with the system. We only replaced the Brisque so none of
the other hardware changed and you really don't have to do much of
anything different preflighting jobs and imposition is Preps which
you probably are already using.
6. I used the Brisque for many years and thought it was great, but
would really hate to have to go back to that workflow. It was less
complicated until you had to find and use all the workarounds for
many jobs.
One of the biggest differences is that Prinergy gives you an
unprecedented opportunity for workflow automation. This goes beyond
the ability of Hotfolders on the Brisque. For example we have Process
plans that once you save out Postscript, it refines the page, prints
out color laser's, Prints out HP Proofs on Newsprints, and saves out
PDFx1a's for us to release to publications. All automated. The Color
laser's we keep for our records, and the proof and the file we send
out to the publication.
We have also set up some cool Color Management conversions during the
refine stage. Transparency problems are non-existant with Prinergy.
The switch to Prinergy is definitely difficult, but after the
switch you will never look back. Just don't expect to have feature
parity to the Brisque, it's a very different workflow concept. Try to
fix everything in the source applications, and you will have a-lot
less frustration. Pitstop is a real Dog.
Цитаты взяты из рассылки пользователей CREO. Курсив мой.We're planning on an equipment upgrade (both software and hardware) in the not to distant future. We are presently using
Brisque v4. My question is have any of you moved from the Brisque workflow to Prinergy? And if so,
1) Is it all an improvement over the Brisque or are there drawbacks to the switch?
2) Does Prinergy handle Adobe transparency issues better than the Brisque?
3) Are the PC boxes used in Prinergy as dependable as the Brisque AIX boxes?
4) Features missing from one workflow vs. the other.
5) Is there much of a learning curve involved in the switch?
6) Any other comments, pros, cons, or other issues on the switch.
ALL of my operators were unhappy, and some were actually livid when I
told them we were switching from Brisque to Prinergy. My most outspoken
critic knew Brisque inside out, and had used it for many years. Today
he'd tell you he can't believe he fought the switch, and he'd NEVER want
to go back.
Prinergy servers will need to be rebooted at least once per week to keep
them running smoothly. Overall, the PCs have been less troublesome than
the Brisque boxes. We also moved our "Active Jobs"(source files) from a
Ripro server to a Windows server. We use ExtremeZ-IP on the Windows
server. We have not rebuilt a Mac index in 2 years--that was something
we did at least once a day with the Ripro server.
There is a learning curve, but it is not a difficult one.
One "Pro" is getting away from CT/LW. My operators probably don't even
realize that Prinergy does dual rasterization. They don't need to know
that. My former die-hard Brisque operator loves that he doesn't have to
deal with CT/LW any more.
I've talked to several Prinergy shops that had left Brisque. I hear the
same story every time...operators didn't want to switch, but later are
glad they did.
Ditto - I could not agree more. I was never charmed by the Brisque in the
time I had to deal with one and never understood the blind allegiance it
commands in so many other people. It kind of reminds me of Apple computing
in that sense. If only a Mac were on the Brisque front end! Throw on some
dark glasses and start serving the Kool-aid!
One Brisque "pro" - There's plenty to choose from on eBay.
Speed is one of the most important benefits you will see in Prinergy
over Brisque.
Your operators will be amazed by how Prinergy outperforms Brisque in
speed of ripping trapping etc...
I was also a die hard Brisque user and as Jim said, I'd never want to
go back.
Tom is right in that the Unix box (Brisque) is more dependable than
anything that has Microsoft attached to the beginning of it. The
Microsoft Server box that Prinergy runs on is a good box, but not near
as reliable. We had a Brisque from 98 to 02 and once the install was all
completed, it was down one time and that was due to a glitch with an
upgrade. It turned out I missed a step... it was a pain to fix, but 3
hours later all was good with the world again. I will mention that the
install was ugly and took about twice as long as they said it would, but
then after that the Brisque worked great.
I've had Prinergy since then and it's been down easily 15 times and the
last time was ugly. Dead Prinergy server that we still don't know why it
died. It would run for awhile and then just go blue screen of death.
After two days of fighting it, Creo did the right thing and sent me a
new temp server so we could get back up. We used it for two weeks while
a brand new server shipped. We copied the data from server a to server b
and off we went. It's been butter smooth since. I think the 4 presses
set idle over the 5 day mess for just over 30 hours according to
Accounting. 30 hours times 4 presses times $400/hr... and that was just
accounting for the presses not the bindery equipment, etc... you do the
math.
With that all being said, I would NEVER, EVER, EVER go back to a
Brisque. Prinergy simply works better... this is my opinion and yeah,
I've used the new version of Brisque, blah, blah, blah... I fought off
the Prinergy wave back in 01 and finally gave it a serious look in 02
and decided it was time to stop with all the workarounds, etc and we
jumped to Prinergy. I've never regretted it, not even once.
The best of all worlds would be Prinergy running on a Unix box... that
would be heaven. Microsoft sucks.
I can give some quick answers. We switched at end of last year from
Brisque 5 to Prinergy 2.3.1.4.
1. I think it is an overall much system, being pdf based than the
Brisque. The workflow is more complicated though and does take some
involvement getting everything to work with existing equipment.
2. There are much fewer transparency issues with Prinergy and CT
edges are always sharp.
3. The Boxes used are Dell servers. We have had one drive go out on
the RAID but we got a new one and there was no down time. Not sure on
overall reliability though it is too new, but the print console boxes
we use have not had many problems.
4. The only major feature missing from the Brisque is manual layouts.
We had used this for ganging patch proofs. Post RIP edits on spot
color items (duotones, dsc2, and multi-ink) are very difficult or
impossible with Acrobat and Pitstop. We are looking into other options.
5. It took our six operators about two weeks to feel somewhat
comfortable with the system. We only replaced the Brisque so none of
the other hardware changed and you really don't have to do much of
anything different preflighting jobs and imposition is Preps which
you probably are already using.
6. I used the Brisque for many years and thought it was great, but
would really hate to have to go back to that workflow. It was less
complicated until you had to find and use all the workarounds for
many jobs.
One of the biggest differences is that Prinergy gives you an
unprecedented opportunity for workflow automation. This goes beyond
the ability of Hotfolders on the Brisque. For example we have Process
plans that once you save out Postscript, it refines the page, prints
out color laser's, Prints out HP Proofs on Newsprints, and saves out
PDFx1a's for us to release to publications. All automated. The Color
laser's we keep for our records, and the proof and the file we send
out to the publication.
We have also set up some cool Color Management conversions during the
refine stage. Transparency problems are non-existant with Prinergy.
The switch to Prinergy is definitely difficult, but after the
switch you will never look back. Just don't expect to have feature
parity to the Brisque, it's a very different workflow concept. Try to
fix everything in the source applications, and you will have a-lot
less frustration. Pitstop is a real Dog.
